Exchange of Correspondence With Sue Parsons, Current Owner of Garfield House
 in Burgess Hill, Sussex, in which Sidney West Lived

Sue was interested in learning more about Sidney West , so our interests coincided.

********************

From: R H Neergaard

To: Sue Parsons

Date: Wednesday, July 1, 2004 2:37 PM

Subject: Re: Sidney West Cont'd

Search results, Sidney West - 1881 British Census

http://www.familysearch.org/

Sydney H. WEST - 1881 British Census / Derby

Son Gender: Male Birth: <1872> Sheffield, York, England

Household:

Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability

John W. WEST Head M Male 49 Sutton On Trent, Nottingham, England  CReg'dhemist & Postmaster

Betsey WEST Wife M Female 49 Bardney, Lincoln, England Schoolmistress

Frederick H. WEST Son U Male 21 Mablethorpe, Lincoln, England Stone Mason, Out Of Employ

George H. WEST Son U Male 17 Birmingham, Warwick, England Pupil Teacher

Eleanor M. WEST Daur Female 15 Sheffield, York, England Scholar

Ernest J. WEST Son Male 4 Bamford, Derby, England Scholar

From: R H Neergaard

To: Sue Parsons

Date: Wednesday, June 30, 2004 2:37 PM

Subject: Re: Sidney West Cont'd

Congratulations on getting your hands on the will! Not only do you now have "our" Sidney firmly identified, we also know a lot about him. He seems indeed to be the bricklayer's son from 1881 census, and the Sidney whom the GRO lists as having died at Cluckfield. I'll ask our comrade-in-search, Jeff Bailey, who lives in Devon, to get a copy of the death certificate from the GRO. Armed with the family information this ought to provide, we'll have better knowledge with which to search the 1891 and 1901 censuses and various directories, and thus flesh out our picture. I looked up births from JFM 1874 through JFM 1875, found but one Sidney, and he a Sidney John, born in Wallingford (vol 2c, pg 304). Strange; maybe Sidney H was born earlier and fibbed about his age.

The 1901 census index, excerpt attached (http://www.1901census.nationalarchives.gov.uk/) shows a Sidney West, age 26; born Wilts Wilton, county Southampton, parish, Little Somborne; no occupation listed. The index shows several other Sidney Wests of this vintage, but all with occupations quite unlikely to have led to the substantial estate our SW amassed. Although..... it is noteworthy that a surprising number of people associated with our EWTH quest had quite humble beginnings, and reported having menial occupations in the late 1800's, but by 1900 were listed as being of "independent means". Sidney himself may have been a bricklayer's son (though that SW was born in Cranbrook, Kent.... could that be equitable with Wilts Wilton?). Anyhow, makes me wonder whether the entire Hoare (including West) social/family circle weren't somehow the beneficiaries of some substantial windfall around the late 1890's. We haven't been able to establish the link, but Hoare & Co, brewers, sold off a bunch of pubs around then; and there's a rumored, dark, association (scandal, then exile) with the Hoare Bank.

And speaking of flesh, does your comment "It is well known in Burgess Hill that Sidney had a liking for young boys" mean what it sounds like - that which "dares not speak its name"? Boy, that's Wilde! Maybe just as well Trig wasn't allowed to become Sidney's adoptee. And no wonder my other correspondence with the Burgess Hill institutions - library, historical center, sports field - produced only muffled responses. Could this be associated with the Hoare "scandal", or the sudden wealth of EWTH the cast of characters?

Answer: I can tell you no more, other than that the elderly people to whom I have chatted all remark on this fact. There are a few stories about him insisting that the young lads swim naked.

However, I doubt if this would have any bearing on your lack of response from the Library etc

You mentioned SHW had a brother "Arthur Gowld West". Is that really "Gowld" and not "Gould"?

Answer: Could be Gould looks like Gowld it’s not a very clear copy

Re copy of Will - not essential but "nice to have", as an appendix to the study we're putting together. I can't think why making a copy would be illegal; at least here, wills are a matter of public record. If however there's a concern, you could perhaps lend me the document, by mail or e-mail, and I could make a surreptitious copy and return the original to you. I'd be safe here on this side of the Atlantic (I don't think they'd extradite me).

And there's of course no question you'll be kept in the loop", to the extent you want to be. I presume that would mean concerning matters to do with Sidney West, but not the tons of stuff we've gathered about Trig's genealogy not relevant to West.

on 6/30/04 4:09 AM, Sue Parsons wrote:

You were right middle name was an ‘H’ …………. Herbert

At the time of death he resided at Garfield, but ………………. You said Cuckfield……………………well in those days the nearest hospital was Cuckfield Hospital so that was ‘more’ than likely, our Sid. It was interesting to know that he died at 67

He had a brother Arthur Gowld West, who lived at ‘Chenies’ Caversham Reading — Sidney left him the family silver and a cameo of their great great Grandfather and family portraits

**********

The daughter of his brother, Marjorie Bridget was left £500 in Sidney’s Will (his niece).

The executors of the will were Charles Philip William Stroud of 6, Bank Buildings (Auctioneer) and John Hunter Cockburn of 61 Church Road Hove.

C P W Stroud was left to handle free of all duty all of Sidney’s freehold property, INCLUDING ALL HIS SHARE AND INTEREST IN A MOIETY OF NORTH HOUSE FARM AT PROTSLADE SUSSEX

Sidney stated that all horses owned by him be destroyed if and when of no use to C P W Stroud

Furniture and all household and personal effects - C P W Stroud.

His cook — Marjorie Oliver of 123 Fairfield Road Burgess Hill, was left £100 one hundred pounds

William Martin of Newport Road, a former Groom £15 fifteen pounds.

Various small amounts were left to what looks like previous Grooms ranging from £5 to £25

The Groom he had at the time of death, Leslie Selsby, was left £5 plus £5 for every year he had been employed by Sidney? It was stated that he was entitled to receive this only if he was not under notice to leave!

**********

One large amount to Bryan Scott Oliver of 123 Fairfield Road Burgess Hill who was no longer in Burgess Hill but somewhere with the Royal Marines (formerly his Groom) £500 five hundred pounds (note same address as the cook — possibly son?).

He left £16000.00 (sixteen thousand pounds) free of all duty to Bryan Scott Oliver and C P W Stroud with which to promote and benefit the Mid Sussex Amateur Boxing Club and also to benefit and promote Scotches Swimming Pool of Hurstpierpoint. He stated that he wanted his wishes to be carried out on this matter "knowing as they do of my interest in the welfare of the male youth of the District"

**********

Will total £54938-19-10

**********
 

It is well known in Burgess Hill that Sidney had a liking for young boys, I don't know if you were aware of this or not?

 **********

Trig Treadaway may like to obtain a copy of the Will himself — now we know the death date 22nd Feb 1944

It states place of death ‘there’ and points to Garfield but I guess that could mean resided at, at the time of death

I reckon you are right on the button with Cuckfield ? It just would be too coincidental two Sidney ‘H’ Wests 1944

I hope you and Mr T enjoy all these findings, do keep me in the loop if anything else turns up please.

**********

Just re read one of yours and you say he was 69 at time of death, not 67 as I have written

**********

I'm quite happy to send Mr T a copy of what I have assuming it’s legal to do such a thing

**********

CORRECTION - PORTSLADE

**********

WILL LET YOU KNOW TOMORROW WHAT HAPPENED TO THE RESIDUE WHICH WAS DIVIDED INTO THREE

on 6/29/04 7:53 AM, Sue Parsons wrote:

-----Original Message-----

From: Sue Parsons

Sent: 29 June 2004 12:52

To: 'rhn

Subject: RE: Sidney West Cont'd

I’ll be back to your tomorrow with lots of info. you will love it! Yes Cuckfield is very close to B Hill

What a tantalizing teaser! (You have his will ?!?)

Regards,

Sue

-----Original Message-----

From: Sue Parsons

Sent: 29 June 2004 09:23

To: 'R H Neergaard'

Subject: RE: Sidney West Cont'd

No, our Sidney stated in his Will that he was a farmer — he definitely died at Garfield in 1944 He was not young when he died to my knowledge, in fact I think he was getting on in years. I will be back to you later to tell you my findings, all of which are positively correct.

He did have a brother — I don’t have details to hand as I have left them at home this morning, but tomorrow to let you know his name and address.

I may respond to you in dribs and drabs as I think of it, due to not having a lot of time today

Sue

 
-----Original Message-----

From: R H Neergaard

Sent: 28 June 2004 23:04

To: Sue Parsons; Jeff Bailey

Subject: Re: Sidney West Cont'd

A second look makes me doubt the 1873 candidate is "our " Sidney. Didn't you say someone told you he had died young? Both the 1944 GRO listings were of men over 65. Besides, the 1873 name is spelled Sydney. That, by process of elimination promotes to prime candidacy, the bricklayer's son (a self-made man?).

I wonder if he had a different "official" name - eg if he were really, say, John Sidney West, he might have wanted to differentiate himself by using his less common middle name, but would appear as John in vital statistics records. Alas.

Anyhow, here's the 1881 Bricklayer entry:

Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation

Mary WEST Wife (Head) M Female 43 Cranbrook, Kent, England Bricklayers Wife

Ernest WEST Son U Male 15 Cranbrook, Kent, England Farm Boy

Edith WEST Daur Female 9 Cranbrook, Kent, England Scholar

Sidney WEST Son Male 6 Cranbrook, Kent, England Scholar

Source Information:

Dwelling Mill Lane

Census Place Cranbrook, Kent, England

Family History Library Film 1341224

Public Records Office Reference RG11

Piece / Folio 0937 / 96

Page Number 16

Sue,

GOOD SHOW! This gives us a real lead.

The GRO records show that a Sidney H West, age 69, died in the first quarter of 1944 in Cuckfield. Only one other Sidney West is shown to have died in 1944, and he in Westminster.

If you can confirm that Cuckfied is indeed a likely locale (Google lookups imply it's near Burgess Hill), I'll send for his death certificate. That should identify his father, thereby giving us access to his family in the 1881 - 1901 census records.

I looked up Sidney West born 1875, in the LDS posting of the UK 1881 census. There's none that exactly fits age, middle initial, and likely family background. But there's one, born 1872, that indeed does look possible (summary attached). The death certificate ought to nail it down.

Best regards,

Dick

on 6/28/04 6:43 AM, Sue Parsons wrote:

Hi Dick,

Just to let you know I haven’t forgotten you, and to let you know that I have had confirmation that Sidney West died in 1944 at Garfield - Park Road.

Ill be back on to you at a later date to tell you of all my findings, but for the mo. I must dash.

Hope all well with you.

Sue

-----Original Message-----

From: R H Neergaard

Sent: 18 March 2004 02:11

To: Sue Parsons

Cc: Trig Treadaway

Subject: Re: Sidney West

Dear Sue,

I stand in admiration at your industry, and applaud your devotion to The Cause.

But you must surely feel frustrated in your search, and I'm most sympathetic: no Sidney West in the Sussex 1950-57 death index; no Will in the York probate records for the 51-53 period; and the GRO's 38 -year old West was almost certainly too young to have been our guy (we know he visited the RMIB orphanage in the early or mid 30's in a chauffeured limo, so would assuredly not have been younger then than 25, so was born not later than 1910, and most likely well before).

Well - we know he existed, and lived in your house. So either he used an assumed name, or was from abroad, or died before (or after) the geographic and/of temporal interval we've been focussed on.

As an alternative to locating his death certificate (or in addition to it), there's the Trust. Someone locally must know about that Trust. That was hardly a small thing, and with the town the beneficiary, it must have had a high legal profile. So, the Town Hall? A bank? A law office?

There may be still records in one of the Burgess Hill Athletic Clubs regarding who paid the rent, etc. The Trust did, of course, but where specifically did the checks emanate from? Official financial documents such as institutional ledgers ought to be kept a long time, I'd think, and even more so, trusts (as wills are). If the trust documentation could be unearthed, we'd probably have a line on West himself.

And once we knew his age, we could get a birth certificate from the GRO, find out who his parents were, then dig into the various censuses to identify his family, and find out where they lived, their occupations, and when and where they were all born (at least it's supposed to work that way!). We just need that one start point.

Regarding our quest to learn "Who was Edward William Treadaway Hoare", we have indeed made progress, in that we've unearthed a lot of detail, but the major mysteries of his life remain largely unresolved, though every new data point helps us close in.

Thanks for your great efforts, and for keeping us informed. And......

GOOD LUCK!

 
Dick

on 3/17/04 9:02 AM, Sue Parsons wrote:

Hi Dick,

Nothing much to report im afraid.

Have received a letter from Lady Mary Teviot (Census Searches Limited) Burgess Hill International Probate and Genealogical Research - Hazel Grove, Burgess Hill, W Sussex RH15 0BY She says that she has done a search of the death indices from 1950 to 1957 inclusive (that was the period during which Fred Avery believed that Sidney West died). Anyway Lady Mary said that there was no entry for a Sidney West in Sussex for that period?

The elderly lady to whom I have in the past referred, (author of several Burgess Hill books) Mrs Hallet, Portland Road, Burgess Hill, West Sussex - has sadly not come back to me yet. She did mention however that she remembers Sidney and the various people who were left monies in his Will.

I have written off for a copy of Sidney's WILL to Postal Searches Dept, York Probate Regist, Castle Chambers, Clifford Street, York, Y01 9RG they came back to me saying that they had done a search form the beginning of 1951 to the end of 1954, and on the limited information I have given they can find no record.

I have written off for a copy of Sidney's DEATH CERT to General Reg Office, P O Box 2, Southport, Merseyside, PR8 2JD - they sent me a death cert of some chap who died in Shoreham aged 38 years in 1953 - I have returned it to them.

Well I just wanted you to know that I haven't been idle; even though my endeavours to date appear to be unsatisfactory to say the least.

How have you been doing? Slightly better than me I hope

Best Wishes

Sue

-----Original Message-----

From: RHNeergaard

Sent: 04 February 2004 15:19

To: Sue Parsons

Subject: Re: Sidney West

Sue - Thanks so much for your reply - glad to have it, even if the hoped-for info remains for the moment elusive.

The possibility of a link to the so-far mysterious Sidney lives!

All the best
 

Dick Neergaard

on 2/4/04 8:43 AM, Sue Parsons wrote:

Hi Richard,

Well, I had a lovely chat with the lady I mentioned, we talked about everything you can imagine (it turned out that she knew all my deceased family), but her knowledge of Sidney West was limited. However, she said she may know someone who will remember him; she kindly promised to get in touch with that person. So now I wait to hear from her. My sole reason for getting in touch with her was to find out more about Sidney West.

I am sorry I  can'tbe of more help to you at this stage. She is a very nice lady, and I live in hope that she comes back to me in the near future. I shall then be more in a position to pass on information to you. The knowledge of Sidney West which I have, has been passed on to me by Fred Avery, but II'mhoping to add to that when I hear from the lady. Then hopefully you will have some interesting facts to pass on to you eighty year old pal.

Kind regards,

Sue Parsons
 

-----Original Message-----

From: Sue Parsons

Sent: 28 January 2004 09:34

To: 'RHNeergaard'

Cc: fredavery

Subject: RE: Sidney West

HI Richard,

It was rather nice to receive your e-mail this morning; all thanks to Mr Avery! Yes I am indeed keen to learn more about Sidney West, myself.

Funnily enough, I have a lunch meeting with a Burgess Hill lady tomorrow’ on this very subject. I shall keep you informed, and pass on to you anything I learn. I will of course be making notes.

Rest assured I’ll be back to you.

Sincerely,

Sue Parsons

-----Original Message-----

From: RHNeergaard

Sent: 28 January 2004 00:42

To: Sparsons

Cc: Fred Avery

Subject: Sidney West

Dear Ms Parsons,

I'm doing biographical research in which Mr Sidney West of Park Road, Burgess Hill, Sussex is a figure.

The subject of this research is Mr Edward William Treadaway Hoare, ~1866 - 1927, whose family owned a chain of inns in London around the turn of the century

Mr Hoare died relatively young and shortly thereafter, so did his wife, leaving their seven-year-old son an orphan. In 1933, Mr Sidney West of Park Road, Burgess Hill, Sussex visited the boy's orphanage (The Royal Masonic School for Boys in London) and offered to adopt him (the boy's guardian, a maternal uncle in Canada, refused consent).

The research I'm doing is on behalf of that boy, now a man of 80 and a close family friend, who is keen to learn more about his father.

I contacted Mr Fred Avery, Secretary of the Burgess Hill Local History Society, who referred me to you as the present owner of "Garfield", 52 Park Road, Burgess Hill, inasmuch as you too were interested in the history of Mr West.

Anything you can tell me about Mr West would be greatly appreciated. Perhaps we can be of help to one another in our research!

Sincerely,

Richard H Neergaard

cc: Mr Fred Avery, with thanks.

From: R H Neergaard

To: Sue Parsons

Cc: Trig Treadaway

Date: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 9:11 PM

Subject: Re: Sidney West

Dear Sue,

I stand in admiration at your industry, and applaud your devotion to The Cause.

But you must surely feel frustrated in your search, and I'm most sympathetic: no Sidney West in the Sussex 1950-57 death index; no Will in the York probate records for the 51-53 period; and the GRO's 38 -year old West was almost certainly too young to have been our guy (we know he visited the RMIB orphanage in the early or mid 30's in a chauffeured limo, so would assuredly not have been younger then than 25, so was born not later than 1910, and most likely well before).

Well - we know he existed, and lived in your house. So either he used an assumed name, or was from abroad, or died before (or after) the geographic and/of temporal interval we've been focussed on.

As an alternative to locating his death certificate (or in addition to it), there's the Trust. Someone locally must know about that Trust. That was hardly a small thing, and with the town the beneficiary, it must have had a high legal profile. So, the Town Hall? A bank? A law office?

There may be still records in one of the Burgess Hill Athletic Clubs regarding who paid the rent, etc. The Trust did, of course, but where specifically did the checks emanate from? Official financial documents such as institutional ledgers ought to be kept a long time, I'd think, and even more so, trusts (as wills are). If the trust documentation could be unearthed, we'd probably have a line on West himself.

And once we knew his age, we could get a birth certificate from the GRO, find out who his parents were, then dig into the various censuses to identify his family, and find out where they lived, their occupations, and when and where they were all born (at least it's supposed to work that way!). We just need that one start point.

Regarding our quest to learn "Who was Edward William Treadaway Hoare", we have indeed made progress, in that we've unearthed a lot of detail, but the major mysteries of his life remain largely unresolved, though every new data point helps us close in.

Thanks for your great efforts, and for keeping us informed. And......

 
GOOD LUCK!

Dick

Sue

-----Original Message-----

From: RHNeergaard

Sent: 04 February 2004 15:19

To: Sue Parsons

Subject: Re: Sidney West

Sue - Thanks so much for your reply - glad to have it, even if the hoped-for info remains for the moment elusive.

The possibility of a link to the so-far mysterious Sidney lives!

All the best,

Dick Neergaard

on 2/4/04 8:43 AM, Sue Parsons wrote:

Hi Richard,

Well, I had a lovely chat with the lady I mentioned, we talked about everything you can imagine (it turned out that she knew all my deceased family), but her knowledge of Sidney West was limited. However, she said she may know someone who will remember him; she kindly promised to get in touch with that person. So now I wait to hear from her. My sole reason for getting in touch with her was to find out more about Sidney West.

I am sorry I  can'tbe of more help to you at this stage. She is a very nice lady, and I live in hope that she comes back to me in the near future. I shall then be more in a position to pass on information to you. The knowledge of Sidney West which I have, has been passed on to me by Fred Avery, but II'mhoping to add to that when I hear from the lady. Then hopefully you will have some interesting facts to pass on to you eighty year old pal.

Kind regards,

-----Original Message-----

From: Sue Parsons

Sent: 28 January 2004 09:34

To: 'RHNeergaard'

Cc: fredavery

Subject: RE: Sidney West

HI Richard,

It was rather nice to receive your e-mail this morning; all thanks to Mr Avery! Yes I am indeed keen to learn more about Sidney West, myself.

Funnily enough, I have a lunch meeting with a Burgess Hill lady tomorrow’ on this very subject. I shall keep you informed, and pass on to you anything I learn. I will of course be making notes.

Rest assured I’ll be back to you.

Sincerely,

Sue Parsons

-----Original Message-----

From: RHNeergaard

Sent: 28 January 2004 00:42

To: Sparsons

Cc: Fred Avery

Subject: Sidney West

Dear Ms Parsons,

The subject of this research is Mr Edward William Treadaway Hoare, ~1866 - 1927, whose family owned a chain of inns in London around the turn of the century

Mr Hoare died relatively young and shortly thereafter, so did his wife, leaving their seven-year-old son an orphan. In 1933, Mr Sidney West of Park Road, Burgess Hill, Sussex visited the boy's orphanage (The Royal Masonic School for Boys in London) and offered to adopt him (the boy's guardian, a maternal uncle in Canada, refused consent).

The research I'm doing is on behalf of that boy, now a man of 80 and a close family friend, who is keen to learn more about his father.

I contacted Mr Fred Avery, Secretary of the Burgess Hill Local History Society, who referred me to you as the present owner of "Garfield", 52 Park Road, Burgess Hill, inasmuch as you too were interested in the history of Mr West.

Anything you can tell me about Mr West would be greatly appreciated. Perhaps we can be of help to one another in our research!

Sincerely,

Richard H Neergaard

cc: Mr Fred Avery, with thanks.